BBN Exclusive Billy Graham Interview - Part Three by Terry Dooley May 24th 2008

As 2008 kicked into life Billy Graham could have been forgiven for having a wry smile on his face, once universally lauded Graham had taken a lot of stick post-Mayweather only to then see the focus switch to 2007 trainer of the year Enzo Calzaghe, who was himself entering into a make-or-break 2008. Enzo was hit by two high-profile losses (Enzo Maccarinelli and Gavin Rees) followed by a maligned performance in the corner during Joe Calzaghe's fight with Bernard Hopkins. As a fully paid-up member of the Trainer's Union Graham felt the pain suffered by Enzo, the criticism endured by Enzo was made still keener by Graham's affection for his fellow trainer. BG: “In one breath Enzo was the trainer of the year worldwide then he loses a couple of fights and they are telling Joe to ditch him and saying Enzo is no good…all that within the space of a few weeks. That really does say it all. I knew that is what people would do. I felt for Enzo when it was happening as we get on well and I knew what he was going through but I thought, “Well at least it is not just me they are picking on”. I took a bit of comfort in that, sorry Enzo. “We [Enzo and I] text each other and talk on the phone before fights. We might be totally different trainers and different people but we have a place in the same sport and we feel the same passion. Enzo is passionate whether people like him or not, he puts his heart and soul into things.” With Billy and Enzo both linked with speculation over their futures yet surviving to tell the tale it came as a surprise when Amir Khan decided to part ways with his trainer Oliver Harrison. Khan has not suffered a loss on his record, nor has he suffered a loss of form, his in-ring performances have been patchy at times but that is to be expected from a fledgling pro. However someone in Team Khan decided to pull the trigger on Harrison, a decision that reinforced Graham's belief that boxing often suffers from ‘Lunatics taking over the asylum' in terms of training decisions. BG: “There is always a tendency to blame a trainer. I don't need anybody to blame me for anything because I always blame myself for things anyway. The situation with Oliver is ridiculous. I know Oliver and I think Amir Khan was an improving fighter under Oliver. Oliver did nothing wrong. “Sometimes I feel as a coach that we're not allowed to lose a fight. Coaches lose fights. I've won more than I've lost but as soon as you lose a fight everyone wants to get rid of you. That is why I knew where you were coming from about Enzo. I want to also say that Oliver was not got rid off because of the training. I know Oliver personally and it is nothing to do with his capabilities as a trainer and I support him fully. “Sometimes the trainer is at fault though...that must be said. I've seen some terrible work in the corner from people who are supposed to be the best in the business. I've seen some really good work from people who are not known or recognised…but a lot of the time the trainer is used as a scapegoat. People tried to use me after the Mayweather fight. I don't believe they really think I did anything detrimental or wrong. It was just a chance for people to have a fucking pop. It is embarrassing to read stuff like that (the rumours and accusations) but I know it is said for ulterior motives or to have a go. Everyone knows I've got a few enemies in boxing but I've got an awful lot more friends.” As mentioned training boxers is vocational, it is a process rather than its own immediate reward. Graham feels that there is a tendency for people to enter into the training profession thinking it is the fast track to glory, when the opposite is often the case. BG: “I see it (people doing it for the wrong reasons) all the fucking time. Everybody thinks they can be a trainer. They see certain people making a few quid and they all think they can do it. They think they can just hang around a gym for a little bit, get their foot in the door and think they are going to be a world-class trainer and make a lot of money. “Sadly for them they are in for a shock. I've only recently made money and that is after having a TV fighter in Ricky Hatton for over ten years. People think they just have to turn-up and parrot someone and that is all there is to it. If you are going to be good at something you have to be yourself. Anyone can imitate but that is no good when you are in a bad situation. Anyone can run a corner when things are going alright. People get exposed when things start falling apart.” In Graham's case he ran with the training ideas passed on by Phil Martin, who in turn learned from Robert Shannon Senior, who trained Graham also; Graham also brought in help from other areas, seen recently via his association with Kerry Kayes. Graham also made an early decision to stay as true to himself as possible whilst involved with the sport, in his case this meant standing with the boxers whenever possible. BG: “I would like to believe that I am true to myself. I pride myself on being on the fighter's side. I could easily have been a manager or a matchmaker because I've been around certain characters in boxing forever and I know what it is about. “People know that I'm straight. There are no skeletons in my cupboard in boxing; you might be able to dig some out from a few other areas in my life but not boxing. I like to think that I'm straight, that I talk straight and that I know what I'm doing. Let's face it I've been quite successful and my win-loss record is pretty good. We've won fights that we've not been supposed to win and I've helped make my reputation in doing that. I've helped guys get better when they hit their thirties as well. “I've made my enemies along the way because I won't be bullshitted by the people you get in boxing who are complete bullshitters. I picked my spot in boxing and that is training. Training a world-class fighter is as good as being a world-class boxer. “When you pick your ground you can't budge. You have to be one hundred percent behind your fighter. The fighter can't always be right so you have to tell them that for their own good but if the boxer is right I'll stand up for them to anybody. I'll stand by the side of them and (I) always have done; I'm not changing now. “I was like this from the start. I made a conscious decision. It is not a hard decision and I'm not being a martyr for making it because it would be a lot more difficult mentally for me to be the other way and just go along with things. I can live with myself and few people can say that in boxing. You can lie to loads of people but you can't lie to yourself, trust me I've fucking tried it; you have to be truthful with yourself. I was probably born like this. “All this is massively important to me. I can retire without any regrets about how I've acted. There are things that I've done that will leave me with regrets. I regret not pulling out Steve Foster during his fight with Winky Wright. I regret not pulling Matthew (Macklin) out of that last round with Jamie (Moore) but hindsight is a wonderful thing because Matt was still in the fight at the time. There are things that I regret not being in control of but my conduct in everything I was in control of has left me able to leave boxing with my head held high.” Staying in Vegas post-Mayweather was probably a good thing for Graham, the TV show ‘24/7' had made him popular amongst boxing fans in the UK and the USA, once the storm of the fight died down Graham felt he could appreciate the fans a bit more, this post-Mayweather support strengthened his respect for the fans, as well as putting the brickbats into perspective. BG: “There are some horrible people in boxing but they really are the minority…the fans more than make up for any of that. When I get pissed off with someone slagging me off in the press I pinch myself and say, “Shut up moaning Billy,” because I am a lucky bastard. When I get pissed off it doesn't last long anymore. Contrary to popular belief I'd like to be nice to people and have people be nice to me rather than having to be nasty. “It is fucking exhausting to be angry anyway. I harm myself by letting people get me down. If I read something bad about myself that is true I'm Ok with it but when you read something that is false, and it is about your character, then I get upset. It hurts and makes you angry; I'm not a pacifist. “These days I try to be a bit more laidback and cool about it and let things wash over me. It is not always easy to do because I am sensitive, perhaps overly sensitive and people who know me know that I'm an open book. But not that many people know me. “The people I like to please are the fans and the fans reaction to me since ‘24/7' has been unbelievable so I want the ones who like me to get to know me through these interviews. They treat me so well and they are the people that matter to me. It is embarrassing how well the fans have treated me. It is fantastic and I love the fans. “I always feel at home wherever there are fans about. I feel that we are indebted to the fans for the way they treat us and I tried to apologise to the fans for the loss in the Mayweather fight but they were having none of it. The apology was sincere. I felt I had let people down. You know you haven't but you still cannot stop yourself from feeling like that. “It (the support) was absolutely fantastic after the fight. Americans of all colours and creeds were coming up to me and believe it or not but they were all blaming the referee! It was like being surrounded by Brits. “It was surprising because a few of these guys wearing all those hip-hop clothes – baggy jeans and all that – came up to me and I thought they would be Floyd fans with him being a rap type but it was the complete opposite. I thought that was fantastic as well. They said, “We're from the ghetto but we respect you for being ghetto too” and I liked that and we had a laugh over it. “On the other hand I don't give a flying fuck about someone who is bitter or some journalist who doesn't like my personality and writes bad things about me, including the stuff that people put out about me on the Internet. “I don't read the Internet but people show me the stuff on there and it makes me laugh, half the time these people go under false names but I know who they are. People tell me the names of who is writing this tripe over the Internet so I comfort myself in knowing that. “I'll be really glad to be (finally) out of the race and people might (then) stop having a pop at me but if they want a pop tell them from me that I really don't give a flying fuck. This is their opportunity. Anybody who writes derogatory shit about me on the Internet is free to come here to the gym and talk boxing with me.” One rumour rising like flotsam from the bottom of the Internet pond concerned Graham's alleged taste for Bolivian Marching powder. BG: “The cocaine (laughs). Yeah I'm a cocaine dealer and cocaine addict aren't I? I forgot about that (laughs). I feel quite old-fashioned and boring to be honest with you because I'm one of the people who don't touch the stuff. I'm a boring old-fashioned fucker. “I'm supposed to take my fighters on three-day benders as well aren't I? Well I no longer socialise with my fighters. I hardly ever go out. I can count on one hand the times we've been out to the pub. But when I'm out in Las Vegas after a fight then I will party for days, I count that as one trip to the pub if that's Ok with everyone else. I love it over there (in Vegas) and have a girlfriend there so why not (go out)? Don't forget I stayed cooped up in my hotel for two weeks before the fight. When I want to party I do it. The rest of the time I'm pretty much a recluse as you know. “I don't have to hide behind names like the people who put shit on the Internet and I'll confront the person who said things about me on the Internet directly if they want me to. Fuck me the stuff about me being a cokehead was proper slanderous and stupid. I don't touch the stuff. I would sue if that person had any money to sue for but they haven't. Say stuff about me if you want to but don't tell lies. “There are a lot of people who will be glad to see the back of me in boxing. Only time will tell on how people will judge me when I'm finished in the sport but I contributed to it (boxing). As long as they that I was straight and did my best I'll be happy. I've paid the price with my body. “My body is smashed to pieces. My hands, knees and elbows have been passed it for a long time. The doctor told me to give it up before Ricky's first world (WBU) fight. He told me straight that it was over but I carried on and they still tell me that (I'm physically finished) now. “Then I got really ill with a blood infection (caused by cutting up raw meat for my dog) and they told me to give it up but as soon as I could walk and tap my stomach and chest I got back into it. My daughter goes mad at me. Her mother too. They go crazy about me carrying on. I don't want to sound like I'm moaning because I'm not, there is a price to pay for everything and you either pay it or you don't. You can be working in a factory and get injured for less money and during longer work hours so that puts things into perspective. “Listen, without boxing I'd have been nothing…just a kid from Salford, either on the Dole or on the building site [Writer's Note: After hearing about Graham's experiences as a labourer I can assure the reader that this was not an option for him]. They say boxing saves people and it is true in my case. I was right at the bottom of the pile. I didn't have any other skills. I was no Saint either let's face it. I love boxing. But now it is getting near the time to do something else. “It is not over yet and I'm going to enjoy these last fights…people always said I'd never walk away (from boxing) and I used to believe them but I will walk away when the time comes. I used to dream that I had quit boxing and I used to wakeup glad that it was only a dream. That happened on quite a few occasions. I must have been frustrated or annoyed at the time…but I really do believe that I'll be able to walk away when the time comes because I've got another passion in my life.” That passion is nature. Graham's Georgia mansion serves as a training camp and a nature sanctuary, a place where Graham can walk out of his backdoor and go out snake hunting. Although the confession that he likes to turn over rocks and examine the life underneath them suggests a reason why Graham loved being around boxing for so long, boxing has a lot of rocks, with still more insects swarming underneath them. BG: “I love nature and being out in nature. When I was a kid I used to love seeing a log or rock then turning it over to see what is underneath. I'm still the same now. I get excited when I see something that looks like it might have something interesting underneath. That feeling never dwindles, it never goes. I have a fantastic place in Georgia it is also a training camp and it has got great grounds. “I'd love to learn how to use a video camera and make a wildlife documentary on my land. [Perhaps Graham could open a nature tours company, ‘Billy Graham's Nature Tours' has a distinct ring. Especially given that Georgia is Bible country] I'm not going to sit there twiddling my thumbs being fucking bored. It will take me a lifetime just to explore my own area. I can take notes. Take photographs. I'll have to learn how to use a camera first.” BBN writer James McDonnell has often raised the interesting point that his own involvement with the sport had made him feel jaded about the game, it was an observation that Graham had a lot of time for. Nothing kills your enjoyment of a fight more than watching it as a means, rather than an end in itself. BG: “Yeah, there will be no pressure when I'm watching a fight when I retire. I can't watch undercards because I'm so nervous about my fighter on the bill and I can't watch fights without the pressure of thinking about how that guy might fight my guy or what I can learn from the fight. I hardly go to fights when not working. When people see me at fights they go “what are you doing here?”. But when I live in America I can fly to the fights and watch the fights with no pressure. “I'd just love to sit there and watch the fights (without being involved in boxing) because seeing two proper operators standing in range and punching gets me excited. I still get a fantastic buzz from boxing. There is a lot of bullshit about the sport…(there is) loads I'll miss but equally (there is) as much stuff I will be glad to get away from, the rivalries for one thing. “I don't want any competition anymore. I don't need the rivalry. I made it clear a while ago that I'm not in the race for new fighters anymore. They (other trainers) can all have it (boxing). Any fighter I've ever trained has come to me. I've never poached or coveted a fighter. I tell guys who come to me to look around first. I told Ricky Hatton to look around first.” Hatton returns this Saturday as he takes on Juan Lazcano at the City Of Manchester stadium, a fight that is shown live on Sky Box Office. It is still Hatton and Graham at the core of the team, still the same routine, a routine that Graham hopes will result in an impressive win for Hatton in front of his fans. For this fight, as was the case with all the others, Graham is as excited as ever despite a lukewarm reception for Hatton's choice of comeback opponent. BG: “What most of the press know about boxing can be put on the back of a postage stamp anyway. I've had members of the press come up to me before a fight and ask, “What is the other guy like” and I think, “You've not seen him?!”. That has happened to me on a few occasions with supposedly top sportswriters. I stopped getting upset about what those types of people write a long time ago. Lazcano is a hell of a fighter and if you can't see it you are stupid. “When something becomes less fun it is time for a change but I'm still having fun. I'm still excited about Ricky's career, including this fight…but I couldn't do it all over again from scratch. I'll never see a fighter as good as Ricky Hatton again so anything else is an anti-climax. I want to get things done and I will go out (of boxing) happily and healthily. I might be better off when I'm out of boxing because trust me I'll smoke a lot less.” With that said the Lazcano fight was also upon us and our interviews wound down on the Monday before the fight. Graham had made it clear that he hoped BBN would present an in-depth portrait of him as a person. BG: “I wanted to do a mix of stuff in these interviews because I love the fans and wanted them to get to know me. A lot of wrong impressions get written about me so I wanted people to know a bit more about where I'm coming from. “Even getting my hands injected with cortisone on ‘24/7' was a big thing for me because my daughter Billie did not know about it. I wanted people to see what I was about…what boxing is about. The injection is not a big thing but what a thing to have to do to yourself all the time to be part of boxing. My finger was fucking crooked for weeks after the training camp as well. People were coming up to me in Vegas getting photos of my crooked finger. It was fucking crazy.” That last statement could be a commentary on the sport of boxing itself and Graham's continued involvement is a sign that the trainer, despite seeing the end in sight, is still crazy about the sport after all these years. Love him or loathe him it the sport will miss his presence when the time comes, although BBN's charity swear box may get a rest post-Graham.

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Interesting May 28th 2008, 04:25:54 by slim Fantastic piece Terry. Graham has done loads for boxing in this country and worldwide. He's an inspirational bloke